davywavy: (Default)
davywavy ([personal profile] davywavy) wrote2004-02-20 11:14 am

Thoughts for the day

If suicide isn't a selfish act, how come people who jump under trains tend to do it during rush hour when it'll screw up the day for thousands of other people?

Have you ever noticed how much John Willams' Superman theme owes to Aaron Copelands' Fanfare for the Common Man?

If you play Lucretia, My Reflection by the Sisters of Mercy at 1.4x speed, it stops being a morbid dirge and becomes quite a fun dance track. However, if you play This Corrosion by the same band at the same speed multiple, it sounds like Pinky & Perky singing it.

Aneurin Bevan, when he founded the NHS in 1946, predicted that as time went by the NHS would make the populace of the UK healthier and so the cost of running the service would decrease. More than 50 years later, we're still waiting.

[identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:31 am (UTC)(link)
a) Ah, fascetiousness. Always the best response when you can't be bothered tomake an effort, eh, argles?

b) Agreed; that's money which could very easily and with greater benefit to the betterment of society at large be spent elsewhere

c) I'm not sure that short term- emotion was what resulted in the bureaucracy heavy institution we've got (see notes above). I suspect it's long term insistence on hanging on to outdated and discredited social and political ideas which has resulted in a great deal of unnecessary suffering and waste.

[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I'm a bit tired.

The fact is, though, it does cost more to keep people alive when they're elderly, and whereas you rarely get soap opera/philosophical exercise of "really old man vs young girl, who gets the heart?" for every operation, aftercare or medication there's a cost incurred. A cost that could go towards something more long term.

Of course, it's okay for me to say something like this, now; I'm only 26. Come my seventieth birthday, it's most unlikely you'll find me taking the noble Winter Wolf.

I'm not sure what you seem to think is the 'discredited social and political idea' that has been discredited. The NHS, as any fule no, was set up as a reaction to the realisation that after WWII there were a lot of wounded and sick people who needed care, or had been put into so much destitution and poverty by being widowed/orphaned/bombed and that charity alone wasn't going to cut it. Oh, Nye Bevan had his morals, certainly, but that was what pushed it through. I think the NHS as an institution is poorly administrated with varying different trusts all competing against each other, but [livejournal.com profile] omentide can probably wax more lyrical about that than I can.
What I object to is paying into a State Pension fund when it's blatantly clear that by the time we get to retire there won't be anything to claim.

That and Nesta - Brr!

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[identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:45 am (UTC)(link)
No, the discredited idea is that central social planning is a good idea in cases like this one.

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[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:48 am (UTC)(link)
Well, as opposed to an Insurance system or a Free Market.

The reason being, people are stupid. Look at Credit Unions, HP, Double Glazing, an edition of Watchdog. You open a free market on basic social care, and people will be ripped off by shysters.

Of course, personally I believe stupid people should be penalised, but that's not a palatable view.

I'd rather have a nanny state than one which lets you fall out of the pram.

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[identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:54 am (UTC)(link)
bearing in mind that the tax is called 'National insurance', I'd kinda like it to do, you know, what it says. the best way to acheieve that is to remove it from central planning control and devolve it to the people who actually do the work. This was tried in part by the tursts system, but has been effectively emasculated by an increase in centrally controlled bureaucracy.

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[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:59 am (UTC)(link)
I'm closing this part of the thread because we're stepping out of my area of expertise, and I don't know enough about the administration aspects to blag it.

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[identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:57 am (UTC)(link)
Incidentally, whatever makes you think that paying money to the government means that any of it goes to the pensions system? All that happens is that tax by any name (VAT, PAYE, National Insurance, Etc &c) goes into a big bag marked 'cash to waste' that Gordon Brown doles out to his pet projects. He is under no compulsion to put a single bean of your national insurance towards insuring you.

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[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Indeed, and there are a thousand other things that I would also probably grumble about paying for. Probably seven hundred of those, though, are desperately needed by some groups of people, somw of which I might be in later life.

/me channels the spirit of Kinnock.

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[identity profile] kathminchin.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
What I object to is paying into a State Pension fund when it's blatantly clear that by the time we get to retire there won't be anything to claim.

I hate to burst your bubble here but that is not what you are doing.

The money you are currently paying is not</> being saved for your pension. If it was being invested for you it wouldn't vanish when you got to retirement - well it might, but not for the same reason. It is being used to pay for the current pensioners. When you get to retirement then the working population then will be paying for yours.

This is why the State Pension Scheme does not work. Especially considering we have an aging population and a decreasing birth rate.

Sorry, I used to work in Pensions. That was one of the Big Myths that people still buy into.

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[identity profile] kathminchin.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
and my formatting went up the spout there.

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[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 09:08 am (UTC)(link)
Exactly my point. By the time I get to retire, there won't be a state pension for people to pay into for my upkeep.

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[identity profile] kathminchin.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 09:11 am (UTC)(link)
glad to see you're in the real world then Jon

Cos at least one of my work colleagues was surprised when I pointed this out to them...

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[identity profile] omentide.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 11:54 am (UTC)(link)
The NHS is poorly administered and the typical solution to that is to employ another adminstrator/manager to sort it out.

One of the essential problems is that doctors are medically trained and, as such, have had little time to learn basic management (let alone admin.) principles. Doctors like to hang onto 'power' in a management sense but are too busy 'saving lives and stamping out disease' to engage in management issues to the extent that would allow things to be run sensibly. Because they feel that they should retain power over how things are run, this causes them to undermine management decisions taken by managers (who are usually paid a lot less than managers in the private sector and don't always have a good grasp of the 'front line' medical issues).

Then you get the internal politics. Which are incredibly filthy. An awful lot of Empire Building goes on, within departments, between departments and between directorates, as well as on the Trust vs. Trust level.

I've also worked in private hospitals. I don't think things work much better there. And, if I had the choice, I would rather be a patient in an NHS hospital. I have a lot of reasons for saying that. One of which is the experience my father had in a well-regarded private hospital where there were no medical staff on site for much of the time (because they were busily fulfilling their NHS contracts).

I don't know how you fix it. I wish I did.

Our CEO believes that the current government is in the process of deconstructing the NHS, whether by accident or by design. He gave a presentation on this (and its implications for our Trust) a couple of weeks ago. It was depressing. I found it depressing.

But then I freely admit to being a socialist and am fairly devoted to the idea of top quality healthcare, free at the point of need.

I Saw This And Thought Of You

[identity profile] jonnyargles.livejournal.com 2004-02-20 05:44 am (UTC)(link)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3505707.stm