Cam ups, Cam downs, and sundry

[davywavy]

Sometimes it astonishes/disappoints me the amount of petulance and spite that the Cam generates, given that it is just a hobby.
We'll start todays observations with andydavies and grimjim 's little tirades about Andy Richardson, the departing ANST. Where did that little bit of public spite come from?
Sadly, I don't really think I can criticise either of them for it - Andy has a fairly unbroken run of being a good bloke and on the nail, and one lapse isn't enough to really castigate him over, so I just look askance and move on. And as for Grim, he doesn't have sentient awareness or free will in the way you or I would understand it. He's more of a bile-producing automaton (a bit like a spiteful Gort the Robot), and so he just produces such nonsense without consciousness. Criticising him for being spiteful is like criticising a badly made clock for showing the wrong time; it's not something you can do anything about, the clock isn't even aware that it is doing it, and overall you're best off ignoring it and looking elsewhere to find out what time it is.

On other matters, I found out yesterday the actual details of why my old mate Sean Prather isn't a Cammie any more, and I was left open-mouthed with shock at the circumstances. I've not been given permission to pass on the details by him, but suffice to say that I thank God the checks & balances I put into out constitution will hopefully prevent crap like this happeneing in the Cam UK.

On a plus note, I refer you to here:
http://www.cam-anarch.org/main.php?page=law&doc=primertwo
Possibly the best bit of a rules supplement I've read since the first edition of GUT landed on my desk back in '98. A Cam roleplaying supplement that actually encourages people to roleplay? Whatever next?!
If anyone knows the person who wrote this, please pass on my congratulations - it's without a doubt the best thing to have come out to the rules groups in a month of Sundays.

Elsewhere, I was off to the gym last night and found I still haven't recovered from the physical exertion of the weekend. A decade ago I could run a mile in under 5 minutes - last night, I couldn't run a mile at all. Weights weren't much better, and all in all, I felt a soft girly weed and gave up in exhaustion after a while. Returning to the changing room, my male pride in tatters, I wasn't helped by the first thing I saw as I walked in being a superbly muscled bloke with a cock that wouldn't have looked out of place in a John Holmes movie walking out of the showers. I withered up inside, and went home feeling completely crap, all masculine bravado gone...

Comments

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

Dave, the author of the page appears to be one Erik Randall (US ANST Cam/Anarch). And I agree. Not bad at all.

Re:

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Ah, right - Greebotrill, if you read this, pass on kudos to your gnome.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Agreed, some guidelines about playing to and roleplaying status are well overdue, I feel a momentary cringe everytime people quote them directly; this could be a lot more work (and fun) like this, you just need people who are prepared to put the effort in...

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

True, and for the system to work, there will, at least in the early stages, be a lot of dropping IC/OC going on as people say "What did that actually mean?"
However, with time and a period of learning and effort it looks like it could develop into quite a laugh.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Aye and more so it will make playable and most importantly workable and ''realistic'' (ie to seem more like the workings of a society that the stunted movements and mechanics of a forced rules system) a very awkward to deal with mechanic.

reasons

[raggedyman.livejournal.com]

i normally dont give these but for they I thought I might as well. not expecting you to agree with or understand but ya kinda asked so here's a kind of response as best as i can do atm.

I didn't think much of andyr as anst and i think him resigning is a good thing on many levels. You know this, you know why i think this and we have talked on it lots. And we both disagree on this one lots, (which is cool and fine: i honstly think life would be very dull if we all agreed, I dont actually think my opinions and beliefs are true and correct in the philosophical absolute contect and I really appreciate being able to disagree with a friend) and we are unlikly to agree on it but i think we can see each others opinions on it (at the very least i can see and understand yours).

So i put it in my lj as it was a thought in my head, thats what I do with my lj: post up stuff out my mind, for myself [and yes I know lj is a public forum etc but you can take it within the context of the lj concept]. Personally it was one of those red letter days and red letter thoughts so i shoved it up, though its made slightly bitter in retrospect as I'm now not sure if I can be assed to return to the shores of the cam 'vamp' after all this time of absance (an absence, imo, much extended by the actions and anst stylings of andyr). Its not exactly a secret that I have strong opinions on andyr as anst (as a person i don't really know, i just dislike the man as hat) so I dont see what all the shock is about me being happy that he's gone.

hope that explains some of it. most likly wont make you go 'andy done good after all' but then its not like i make my posts in some sort of attempt at a popularity contest or shotgun character assassination fetish.

Re: reasons

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

I'm not taking issue with your opinions; it was the tone.

I know you don't like his style - but it's the difference between "I don't like his style, I'm glad he's going, and here's why...", and "I'm glad the useless fat git is gone."
I regard Andy R as a mate, and so I'll defend him when people are rude about him - especially in areas which he isn't aware of/won't see. In the same way, I regard you as a mate, and I'd defend you if someone was rude about you somewhere where you weren't there to defend yourself.

Re: reasons

[raggedyman.livejournal.com]

fair enough and quite possibly true. however (in a very possible over exageration but i kinda like the metemphor) you can either explain VE day with a 2000 page book on WW2 or with a pic of two random people snogging: I went with the pic option

[jonnyargles.livejournal.com]

Oh, that was you in the changing rooms; I did wonder.

[puddingcat.livejournal.com]

Gah - the stress realy must be getting to me. It's taken me this long to think of the snappy comeback I should have said on the phone.

"No dear, you were walking past the mirror".

There. Wasn't that worth waiting for?

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Sadly, John Argles beat you to the punch.

!

[ex-grimjim.livejournal.com]

That'll teach me to say anything nice about you like I have been lately. I'll just start spewing bile for no reason instead shall I?
I'll thank you to remember the spite comes from the actions and attitudes of the people it's directed at.

If you don't want unadulterated, 100% pure _opinion_ then don't read my LJ and ask me my opinion elsewhere in a different context.

My LJ is for me to blow off steam and rant safely, thats what it says in the very first entry.

Why did I not like Andy R? In a less ranty and more substantial way?

While A.N. Other was screwing over the UK Cam as a whole from above (IMO) Andy R was doing his own damage, specifically to the C/A venue though it spread a little into the adjoining venues as well.
My dislike of Andy R within the society context (And some of this applies to his brother as well) is based around the following...

1) - The best comparison I stumbled on accidently replying to comments on this in my LJ. He IS the Fast Show's 'Colin'. Lame humour that nobody wants coming in a constant tidal stream, interrupting and disrupting everyone.

2) - Combined with the above, what I consider to be an inability to roleplay or to see good RP situations, circumstances or characters in others. Many instances of crushing excellent plot and RP opportunities laid before him in favour of the strict status quo. He seems only able to play a single type of character, that being rather like some kind of slightly scary 'clown' who leaves you feeling your children wouldn't be safe with them. (That's CHARACTERS I'm not suggesting Andy R himself is a paedophile). His characters constantly project jokes and comments to a 'nonexistant' OOC peanut gallery, something I find very distracting and disruptive to RP. The same thing happened often while STing.

3) - The portrayal of the Justicars Office has been consistently biased and poorly portrayed. Acknowledged, the Justicar IS a Malkavian but the bias shown in favour of the Setites is deeply suspicious as are several peripheral plot items and the (presumably overseen) actions of the Justicar at the national and between games. Often the portrayal of powerful NPCs seems to be targetted to remove aspects of the game Andy and or his boss found personally disagreeable within the game.

4) - Irrational hostility to other venues. Purists are fine, they contribute a lot to their venue, but, like a new domain joining the Cam, they have to understand there are other games out there. Andy's isolationist stance came through in the way he directed the Justicars office (See above) and the way he handled various things, including the scene at the national, which was the most wasted opportunity for RP and great plot I have ever, ever seen, bar none.

On another note, do you have Sean's e-mail address anywhere or could you ask him to get in touch with me, I'd wondered where he'd gone. All I knew about was a suspension, not a ban, so I'd kinda like to talk to the bugger about it.

Oh, and you might be pleased to know it looks like the international Cam (under WW) are finally looking towards reforming the international structure, and I've got high hopes that they'll develop things along similar lines to what you accomplished.
(Which, incidentally is what I've been singing your praises about referenced earlier).

Now, we don't often agree, I didn't like your 'insider trading' style and I don't care much for your 'politics' or world outlook, but you still did good things, which I acknowledge, so be fair, eh?

But then it's your LJ, so bitch me out if you like.
::shrug::
I can take it without having hysterics.

Re: !

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Hey: if you're publicaly rude about my friends, I'll be publically rude about you, whether you're saying nice things about me or not. And I'm good at being rude.
Of course, if you don't think people should defend their friends when people slag them behind their backs, that's your business.

I assume "Colin" is a comedy character; I don't own a TV, and so I'm left behind on such things, but I asume the comparison isn't positive and wouldn't be appreciated.
I'm jolly glad you're being nice about me; as I said to Andy D, I've no problem with people presenting "I don't like and here is why" reasoned arguments. However, I dislike people slagging off my friends without apparent reason, and as such I consider it my moral responsibility to defend them when they are not there to defend themselves.

Re: !

[ex-grimjim.livejournal.com]

To be fair the reasons were already patently obvious and shouldn't have needed spelling out.

For your education...

'Colin' is a stereotypical 'Office clown'. Coloured suits, bright cartoon ties, a comedy orange wig and a line in unfunny jokes. Never seems to do any work and spends all his time distracting and offputting other people.

Amiable, but eminently punchable.

Re: !

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

I like Andys take on ANST and what he's done. He realsies that the primary motivating force behind any story is coinflict, and everything he has done, either IC or as NPCs/plot, has been towards that end.
Many players don't like that style, anbd I can see why. it's challenging, and PC on PC conflict is *much* more likely to result in PC death and PC on NPC conflict.
I'm not a character killer - I'm about to make my first ever serious attempt to kill a PC and that is just because they're wanting to kill me and I reckon they have a better than average chance of succeeding. However, I also realise that the game as is cannot really procede within it's background structure without that. That's why I like what he's done, even though I personally wouldn't do it the same way.

[eleventh-seraph.livejournal.com]

On a plus note, I refer you to here:
http://www.cam-anarch.org/main.php?page=law&doc=primertwo
Possibly the best bit of a rules supplement I've read since the first edition of GUT landed on my desk back in '98. A Cam roleplaying supplement that actually encourages people to roleplay? Whatever next?!
If anyone knows the person who wrote this, please pass on my congratulations - it's without a doubt the best thing to have come out to the rules groups in a month of Sundays.

Geez, I need to check my referer logs a little more often. I'm glad you like it. I'm working on a new version that will hopefully make things a little clearer, and will do a better job of addressing the In Character reasons why the OOC rules exist. (That is, it will be slanted more toward the IC reasons why kindred do the things that the OOC rules represent.)

Re:

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

If you want any assistance, I'd be delighted to give it. Anything that encourages rules authors to forget about rules and concentrate upon the gameplay is a good thing.

[eleventh-seraph.livejournal.com]

When I finish the next draft, I'll send you copy for your comments (I have short list of people to abuse it--I'll add you to it...).

Re:

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

OKay, sounds good.

[eleventh-seraph.livejournal.com]

Well, the next draft is done. It's not too different. Still want to beat it up?

Re:

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'd be happy to help :)

I'm working absurd hours at the moment, so I can't promise fast turnaround, but feel free to drop it over.

Re:

[eleventh-seraph.livejournal.com]

No problem.