davywavy: (Default)
[personal profile] davywavy
Last week the Law Lords pronounced that the indefinite detention of terror suspects without trial, as practiced by the Government under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act, was unlawful. Not content with that, the Law Lords went on to say that: "[This case] calls into question the very existence of an ancient liberty of which this country has until now been very proud: freedom from arbitrary arrest and detention."

However, new Home Secretary Charles Clarke and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw have both issued statements which can be summarised as "La la la, we're not listening."
Should we be worried, or even unhappy about this? I'd say so, yes. The principle of not imprisoning people unlawfully has been on the statute books for the best part of the last thousand years, since it was formally introduced on the Magna Carta:
"A freeman shall not be amerced for a slight offense, except in accordancewith the degree of the offense; and for a grave offense he shall be amerced inaccordance with the gravity of the offense... and none of the aforesaid amercements shall be impsedexcept by the oath of honest men of the neighborhood."

What does this mean? It means trial by jury before banging someone up. The modern legal interpretation of this phrase is along the lines of "You can't lock someone up unless it either be by action of the law or judgement of their peers in the form of a jury." As the law by which the internees have been locked up has been declared illegal, and no trail by jury has taken place...oh, sod it. Why am I bothering? You've probably stopped reading by now, haven't you?

In the light of this I'd like to ask people to fill in a poll, just to know how you're thinking:

[Poll #406257]

As the Law Lords have ruled that the laws contravene EU Human right legislation, it means that Human Rights lawyers are going to have a field day in fees in the light of the Governments refusal to take action. If I were the sort of fellow who delights in Conspiracy Theories, I'd point out that the law is being driven by the Prime Minister, whose wife is a senior partner with Matrix Churchill - a major human right law office who are an organisation which stands to do Very Well Indeed out of this situation. Happily, the Law Lords have ordered that the cost of paying for appeals against any unlawful imprisonments are to be met by the government - and that is you and me, who cough up the taxes to fund the government. So we'll pay lawyers to challenge the legal framework put in place by the administration who we pay for. Great.

Still, at least Tony and Cherie will have a nice nest-egg for their retirements, won't they?

[Edit: I am surprised to learn that [livejournal.com profile] verlaine is only 13 years old.]

Date: 2004-12-20 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] twicedead.livejournal.com
I voted Labour last time, but... I don't think the Tories would operate particularly differently.

Date: 2004-12-20 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Pointing fingers at other people and saying "Well, they'd be no better" doesn't actually answer any of the points raised above. As a Labour voter, are you proud of the way your support has been used? Will you continue to support them?
Let's face it, Michael Howard has lost my support after he said he's all for compulsory ID cards (at this rate I'll be voting UKIP, and I'd really rather not have to do so).
Will you vote Labour next time? Will you?

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vulgarcriminal.livejournal.com
These laws, here and in the US, terrify me. I think though, the perception is (as usual) it could never happen to me, it's just the brown people or the Muslims.

*sigh*

Date: 2004-12-20 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
The Independant made a good point (unusually for them) when they observed that if it was the Conservatives locking up white people unlawfully it'd be all over the papers and the Socialist Workers would be on the streets; but as it's Labour locking up brown people all we're getting is a resounding silence.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mooncadet.livejournal.com
as an official uk brown person i have the absolute Fear. i feel somewhat helpless and uninformed and really, sad though it is, if it wasnt for people on livejournal i would know far less.

thanks you guys.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raggedhalo.livejournal.com
You know, GWB looked at compulsory ID cards for the States and decided against.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davedevil.livejournal.com
I am horified by the law passed, bizarely though its not entrely different from the interment possibilite sin the original Provention of Terrorism Act the Conservatives brought in in the 80's and that was for imprissonign the Irish.

UltimatlyI feel myself stuck with labour because there is no other option. I am politically opposed to the Cnservatives in almost every aspect, the Liberals maybe, but Kennedy is a clown evn if we could create an oposition out of them I would be worried about him in charge.

Date: 2004-12-20 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borusa.livejournal.com
PTA was passed by the Labour Government of 1974. Another embarrassment for us Labour supporters...

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Internment in Ireland was a Labour policy.
But still, blaming the Conservatives is a common piece of labour obfuscation, so I don't hold it against you.

Date: 2004-12-20 11:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-epicurean.livejournal.com
I would love to vote for someone other than Labour. But the other choices scare the shit out of me. I can't vote conservative, and i'm worried that by voting for the Lib Dem's it'll put the tories in charge, which is just as scary if not more so. Even if it doesn't put the tories in, what would the lib dem's do with the power? It would be like letting a child run the country. Bah, burn them all, and elect me!! Me for Prime Minister, how'd you like to be my wing man "Mr Chancellor"?

Date: 2004-12-20 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
UKIP or Green appear to be the only possible choices left to me. I'm saddened by that, I really am.

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The Green economic manifesto.

From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-20 11:59 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: The Green economic manifesto.

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Re: The Green economic manifesto.

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Re: The Green economic manifesto.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lanfykins.livejournal.com
Why am I bothering? You've probably stopped reading by now, haven't you?

No. I've been feeling seriously worried by the ATCS Act since it was brought in. Unfortunately, I have neither sniper rifle nor knowledge of how to use it.

I felt apathetic about the last election (Wantage is a reasonably safe Tory seat, and after a hard day's work I didn't feel like going to the effort of finding out where the polling station was to cast a pointless vote), but I'm now feeling sufficiently incensed by this government that come the next election intend to let them know my displeasure, even though casting my vote has even less point now I'm in the Henley constituency.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raggedhalo.livejournal.com
Voting is never pointless. Mobilise the sleeper vote and away you go!

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ketchgirl.livejournal.com
The Independant did a good article on this point. I find it very scary.
I would like to go for option other:

I didn't vote Labour last time, and I still won't. I just wish one of the other parties would actually make themselves electable, and soon.

Date: 2004-12-20 11:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Vote UKIP. It's the vote for Joan Collins lovers everywhere.

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Date: 2004-12-20 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nadriel.livejournal.com
Well, I voted Lib Dem last time, and I'll think of someone to vote for next time too that isn't Labour or Conservative.

Date: 2004-12-20 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bringeroflight.livejournal.com
Dave, at this rate we're going to have to set up our own party...

Date: 2004-12-20 12:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I've got a great idea for party leader...

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Date: 2004-12-20 12:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vulgarcriminal.livejournal.com
Ooooh, that's a bit frightening. Now verlaine has to end up with a poet 10 years their junior...

Ew.

I'm going to stop now.

Lib Dems

Date: 2004-12-20 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/vervain_/
I am somewhat concerned at the light in wich the Lib Dems are viewed by people.

If people actually made a stand, campaigned and got involved at the veryleast they could become as big as the tories next year (i.e. both eith the same number of MP's post 2005 election.)

Voting for the Lib Dems will NOT make the tories win, but voting for nu labour means they have won anyway.

Re: Lib Dems

Date: 2004-12-20 01:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lanfykins.livejournal.com
I agree.

whichiswhyIseemtohavedecidedtojointheparty

Re: Lib Dems

From: [identity profile] angusabranson.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-20 04:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
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Date: 2004-12-21 10:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
What's in it for me?
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From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-12-21 01:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

Its My Party

Date: 2004-12-21 09:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eruditorum.livejournal.com
I think the next planned step is to lock up white British people for no reason.

I have been wondering for a while now about creating a party, no idea how to do it yet.

RichM
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