[Politics] It isn't easy being Blue.

[davywavy]

Whilst out on the town a few weeks ago, I got talking to a girl in a bar. After a while, for reasons I can't recall, the conversation came round to politics. Suddenly she stopped short and looked at me quizzically.
"You're right-wing, aren't you?"
"Yup", I replied.
"Well, I don't think we should let homeless people starve to death on the street", she said, smugly ensuring her moral superiority over me and my homeless-starving ways whilst necking the booze I'd just bought her like there was no tomorrow.

A friend of mine who shares my political opinions once told me they didn't really like going to social events with many of my friends, because they knew that they would be belittled and insulted for holding their political beliefs. They found it upsetting that they would be insulted by people they barely knew not even for their beliefs, but for what those people considered their beliefs to be without even taking the time to find out the reality of the situation. In other circumstances this sort of behaviour would be considered 'prejudice'. When you're dealing with a lot of people I run into, it's called 'informed debate'. Sometimes it's nice to open LJ and read the wise words of the mind-numbingly gorgeous vulgarcriminal, who is political voice of reason.
The irony of the intellectual intolerance of many people amuses me in a bleak sort of way; most of the people on my friends list consider themselves to be tolerant, understanding and non-judgemental; however this just highlights the basic dichotomy of many people's political views - they're tolerant of any kink, perversion, social attitudes and outre behaviour which they happen to agree with. Their tolerance doesn't extend so far as being polite to people who think that, oh, say, civil liberties have been undermined quite a lot by the current government or that spending thirty-seven billion quid which we don't have every year in a slowing economy might lead to trouble later.
raggedhalo recently made a post in which he compared prejudice against vegetarians to homophobia, and presented himself as being a persecuted minority. Personally I think it's a bit difficult to be a persecuted minority when you're a socialist vegetarian in a student union, but that's just me.
Re-reading his post, it's interesting to me just how much of his argument I can apply to my own point. After all, if he can compare prejudice against sexualities with his own political views, so can I - to object to that would be prejudiced, wouldn't it? Back in the 1980's, being gay would get you socially ostracised and sometimes insulted in public, whilst being Conservative would get you social acceptance and congratulations on your snappy dress sense. And now...?
There's a comparison to be made here, I think...

Of course, I think Joe's comparison is as nonsensical as mine. But it's funny nevertheless.

Comments

[tooth-fairy.livejournal.com]

My Dad considers himself to be a Conservative. I don't think he's a Conservative, maybe they are the closest party to his beliefs but he is bigoted, judgemental and snobbish to the point of being offensive.

There is a definate difference, I'm not right wing but I am well aware that being a Conservative does not make you a nasty bastard. There seems to be a horrible tendancy for people to blur the ideas of the likes of the BNP with the Conservative party. I imagine that the majority of the Conservative party dislike the BNP as much as most other people and subconsciously being grouped with them by people must be quite distressing.

A brief summary of my political views:

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

1) I think people should be allowed to live their lives with as little interference from the state as possible
2) I don't think we should spend money we don't have and leave it to the next generation of people to worry about who is going to pay the bills.

This alone is sufficient to get me abuse in public places from Labour voters whose cognitive dissonance leads them to think they're doing something good by electing a party who have introduced the most draconian civil-liberty eroding legislation this country has seen in peacetime and overspent by £37,000,000,000 above their own predictions - thus creating the largest budget defecit this country has ever seen.

Re: A brief summary of my political views:

[borusa.livejournal.com]

2) I don't think we should spend money we don't have and leave it to the next generation of people to worry about who is going to pay the bills.

Question : Is the national debt, as a percentage of GDP
(a) higher since 1997 or
(b) lower?

Re: A brief summary of my political views:

[jonnyargles.livejournal.com]

Peacetime?

If you mean we're not having the hun (dot net) dropping doodlebugs in our back gardens, forcing us into the Anderson shelter to huddle around a small tub of bovril, then you're right.

If you mean we have a committed military presence and financial obligations in another country, then you might be a weeny bit on the wrong side.

I do twitter like a schoolgirl whenever I hear about Conservative Reform.

Bobby Peel would have spun in his grave.

As regards my viewpoints, I don't claim to have adhered to one political party, or even be consistent according to the weather or my bowel movements. But then, I'm not deciding the fate of the nation, so I don't have to be. If I had to choose one line, it'd be:

"From each according to what they get out of it, taking into consideration things like personal financial risk, and a percentage of their ability to pay," but you can't put that on a banner.

The trouble with Laissez-faire is the Watchdog factor. People are stupid. They need protecting from more intelligent people. Straw man incoming - what about the police? They serve a role to protect the public from those who seek to further their personal goals without regard for others, be that street mugging, or usury.

There's also a gripe about people whose houses have quadruples in value over the last ten years by virtue of nothing more than sitting on their arses then complaining because they're being asked to pay for the very factors that give them such equity, but that's more of a piecemeal matter.

I really would like to see Cameron bring an end to Punch and Judy politics, to treat being the leader of the Opposition as an end-goal, worthy in itself, to provide a rational counterbutt, but all the evidence is merely showing that he's trying to divorce Blair from his party, which is a damn shame.

However, I tend to think of these thrust and parry rants and counterrants as completely separate from my dealings with you as an individual. At my last job, the girl sat next to me was an active member of the Countryside Alliance, and we got on famously.

[chrisvenus]

There's a comparison to be made here, I think

Gay is the new conservative?

Conservative is the new gay?

I wonder if this means you can be conservative-curious...

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Well, just by claiming to be a persecuted minority any group can get special treatment and immunity from 'abuse'. I want me some of that action.

[tooth-fairy.livejournal.com]

claim they are oppressing you and start crying

[christ1974.livejournal.com]

You could always come out and see what special treatment you get? then nip back in again once you have tasted it.

Not that your in the closet or anything....you know what I mean

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

Well, i recall raggedhalo's post and basically thought it was a bunch of twaddle, and said so at the time.

Conservatives, like any group, suffer from their extremists. It's easy to hear "right-wing" and think "neo-nazi". Mrs Thatcher did a lot of damage to the image as well.

Socialists, like any group, suffer from their extremists. It's easy to hear "left-wing" and think "commie". Mr Stalin did a lot of damage to the image as well.

Roleplayers, like any group, suffer from their extremists. It's easy to hear "gamer" and think "Steekin' Dungeons and Dragons geek". Mr Gygax did a lot of damage to the image as well.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

It's intereseting that you should use as your examples Margaret Thatcher, who deregulated the financial markets and laid the ground for much of the economic growth and improvements of the standard of living we've seen in the last twenty years, and Stalin, who murdered 30 million of his own people.

Are your prejudices showing?
(Reply to this)(Parent)

[raggedhalo.livejournal.com]

And Stalinism, to be fair, wasn't socialism -- even communism -- but was, in fact, state capitalism.

[davedevil.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's nice to open LJ and read the wise words of the mind-numbingly gorgeous [info]vulgarcriminal, who is political voice of reason.

There is a statment I can finally agree with you on ;)

I think political identity in any respect is generally frowned upon in this country. Your lot just get it double bad!

[sesquipedality.livejournal.com]

I suggest you stop hanging about with roleplayer scum, and find some nice merchant bankers to be your friends. I imagine they'll be just as tolerant of left-wingers as most gamers are of right-wingers, but of course they won't be oppressing *you*.

Wouldn't it be appaling if life really were as simple as most people seem to think it is?

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

But then again I doubt the merchant bankers would be so blase about claiming to be tolerant in the first place, which is the basis of much of my objection.

I am actually blushing right now....

[vulgarcriminal.livejournal.com]

Ahhh. Thank you very much. But are you sure you mean me? I mean.... You know...

Re: I am actually blushing right now....

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Hush your mouth. What would Abraham Lincoln say about you?

[annwfyn.livejournal.com]

It must be said, I have noticed that there are rather a lot of people out there who are really into being open minded and tolerant, as long as you're open minded and tolerant in the same way as them. It's slowly getting to be a bugbear of mine - people who say they are open minded, because they are able to listen to tales of bisexual six in a bed romps, but will get incredibly condemnatory of someone who has served in the military (clearly a bad person), or votes Tory, or wears fur.

It isn't tolerance when you've just found new things to be morally righteous about.

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is that tolerance has to have limits. You can't just go around tolerating every viewpoint, because some are actually evil. Unfortunately, the judgement as to what is actually evil is a personal decision.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

And that, my dear, is exactly my point. You can have any beliefs or opinions you like - so long as they agree with mine.

They're ALL dead Dave...

[mrmmarc.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmn Dave.
You have, of course, entirely MISSED the point.
:)
The truth of the matter is this- TB IS indeed a conflicted leader, a man who has betrayed his own party, and the principles therein.
He has misled the British people. He has had some genuine foreign policy victories the like of which would do ANY PM proud (Sierra Leone) but with Iraq he has shown himself hopelessly muddled. Why on Earth did he get elected a third time?
Well, it comes down to this- I have noted that in Britain today there is a underlying neurosis. It has effected an entire generation- maybe more. In fact it effects at least 60% of the entire British population. Like all neurosis it is irrational; it is predudicial; it is unfair. But it is real.

It did not begin straight away.
Maggie was toppled and Britain remained true. Majour was elected in his own right. But during that term it began.
It effects northern cities more than southern; Scotland most of all; but it is real, and tabgible and genuine and no Conservative can escape its power.

Margret Thatcher and John Majour and the Tory governemnt of the 1980's- 90's truely and completly _truamatised_ this nation.
Comepletely.
Tony Blair may been the biggest prat on Earth... but at least he's not a bloody Tory!!!! :)
Face it Dave- the political bigotry you face goes beyond politics. It makes no sense.
Unless you see it as a reaction to a deep seated truma.
We focus on the music in a piss-taking way; we belittle the era; the 80's are seen as all that is awful about Britain. And Maggie is part of it... but it's bigger than that. Many can see the good the Conservative Govt. did during their era. But they burned their bridges doing that good. They simply acted in a such a way that it will be at least a decade before they get elected again- if ever.
I am serious. They traumatised Britain.
I'm not saying this for the sake of saying it... I have come to this after talking/listening and watching.
Why do we have Cameron looking at 'consensus politics'- it don't matter WHAT the Conservatives come up with with policy, they are bruned. Scarred. Damaged goods. He knows this- Tory polls show that voters in the last few elections have rejected Tory policies on the grounds that they are simply that- Conservative. The Tory party is trying to deal with that... but can it do this and remain the Tory party? Time will tell.

But I agree with damn near everything you are saying here Dave... they are hated. And the hate, that burning hate which you and I KNOW is seared into places like where we grew up, was born during the era of the last Conservative government. That hate is so great that i believe that not even David Cameron is enough to overcome it. That hate is so great that even now everyone is talking about the 'Brown Factor' in the next election- it is HIS to lose not Cameron's to win. That hate has, I fear, destroyed the Conservative Party- an aging party; a party with a smaller and increasingly radicalised membership (fact!).
The Liberal Party was once dominant in Britain. The 1920's saw it's death (even though it took many years to see this manifest).
I believe that the crisis the Conservatives face is simply this- they are going the way of the old Liberals. All it takes is ONE new party, like Labour was, and BANG! They are dead.
This is the crisis, the depth of it and the reason for the bigotry.
thoughts?

Re: They're ALL dead Dave...

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Well, no I haven't missed the point - I'm taking the opportunity to point out to people on my friends list that some of them claim to be tolerant, but they're just as prejudiced and hypocritical as the rest of us - if not more so.

HOwever, to answer your point. What you say is linked to the growth of St George's day and demands for it to be a national holiday. It's something that has grown, especially since 1997. Back in the old days, the Scots, Irish and Welsh all were very vocal in maintaining their 'cultural identity', whilst the British didn't bother? Why? Because the Scots, irish and Welsh were the conquered peoples who struggled to maintain a seperate identity in the face of the conquering cultural hegemony - is.
The Thatcher era was the last era when the British were shown they could still stand ont eh world stage and be treated as equals and act independantly. Now, the face of US, Chinese and EU cultural hegemony we can't really do that any more. We're adopting the language and mannerisms of the conquered and defeated, creating cultural symbols to 'define' us because at some level we know we've lost.

There's an accepted psychological process which takes place in the minds of cripples and disabled people towards people who try and fail to help them overcome thier disability - they blame the helper for that failure. This is expressed as hostility and resentment, and the patient is unwilling to work with that helper again, preferring instead a kindly face who doesn't remind them of their failure.
Thatcher tried to make us stand, one last time - and succeeded for a while. People don't want to be reminded of their decline and so Tony Blair represents the kindly doctor who will come in, wash out behinds, tuck us in, and give us an overdose of morphine.
I rage against the mindset which just happily accepts that.

[old-corbie.livejournal.com]

This girl had clearly not heard the word of Boris. Boris is our king!

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Hail Boris!
She even lived in Boris' constituency and failed to love him - can you imagine?

[raggedhalo.livejournal.com]

There was somewhat more to my argument, in fact, and the main thrust of the post was the centrality of food to the human experience. Also, while vegetarianism is a politicised and politicising experience, it's not really about my political beliefs.

Anyway, I do actually try to defend people with views divergent to my own when they get lambasted -- especially when it turns personal. By all means, disagree vehemently and debate the points, but don't say things like "you think we should let homeless people starve to death on the street," for example.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

But you did compare yourself to a persecuted minority - a comparison which is just as justifiable (i.e. not at all) as mine...