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[personal profile] davywavy
Many years ago as a pretentious, up-myself student (as opposed to the pretentious, up-myself worker I am these days), I set out to read a class of books I defined as "All those books which everyone has heard of but nobody has ever actually read" - the great classics of world literature whose titles everyone knows but which never get picked up. I constructed a little fantasy in which I would be holding court in the kitchen at a student party: "War and Peace?", I would say with a dismissive wave. "I've read it. It was crap" or "The Brothers Karamazov? Pfft", I would give a disparaging gesture. "Now there's a book I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy". In my mind's eye, the girl I'd be talking to would be so impressed by this display of erudition and cynicism that she'd take her top off.
Of course, it never worked out like that - these things never do - but this initial plan eventually resulted in my realising that some books are classics because they're actually a pretty good read and so whilst I can, with all truth, say "Les Miserables? I wouldn't bother if you know what's good for you" (because it is a painful slog), I can wholeheartedly recommend anything by Alexandre Dumas or Honore de Balzac because they're both cracking writers. I sometimes wonder if this is why, unlike most of my gamer pals, I never got into books with titles like My character is way cooler than yours: Volume thirteen of the quests of Xx'axx de'G'axx'x the albino Drow psionic monk ranger with two scimitars.

One thing that's enjoyable about ploughing my way through the Penguin Classics shelf at Waterstones is seeing how genres of literature developed; take for example, the genre of future dystopias like Brave New World and >1984. Some people claim that the first in this genre was We (1921) by Yevegny Zamyatin (It's unreadable, don't bother), although I'm inclined to give that honour to Eugene Richter's remarkably prescient 1891 book Pictures of the socialistic future, which foresaw Stalinism decades before anyone else.
The thing about reading books like this is not just to see what they got wrong (Isaac Asimov once critisised 1984 for getting the date wrong...) but what they got right. Brave New World gets it bang on with consumerism to drive economic growth, and 1984 saw the rise of a political class and the creation of a meaningless political language to control thought processes ("We have a passionate commitment to drive change processes through tough targets") with remarkable clarity.

This brings me, rather neatly I think, to Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. Despite being written in the 1950's, it's a book which has had a lot of press lately. It is widely regarded as the most influential book on economic philosophy written in the USA in the twentieth century and deserves reading just to understand the influence and message it has carried to policy makers. Moreover, sales have trebled to 150,000 a year since the economic crisis and bank bailouts began so people plainly still see something in it. Newsnight dedicated a slot to it last week in which Rosie Boycott and a couple of less famous commentators demonstrated that they hadn't actually read it but felt comfortable pretending that they had because it's such a thick book that they didn't expect anyone else would either. And a thick book it is; at over 1000 pages of small print it's easily heavy enough to prop open a particularly heavy door or balance up the wobbliest table in your house. If the sort of social breakdown which Rand predicts within it actually takes place, you could easily use it to club your neighbours to death and then use it as fuel for a roaring fire to cook them over.
Now, I'm always a bit leery about thick books ever since that time I read Mein Kampf and found it was just like The murder of Roger Ackroyd - you read hundreds of pages and then find out at the end that the narrator was the murderer all along. However, I persevered and read it - mainly so you lot don't have to, I think.
Atlas Shrugged is the story of Dagny Taggart, the owner of a transcontinental railway in a rapidly economically and socially collapsing USA, and her struggles to keep the railway going as thought and human industry slowly vanish. First up, it has to be observed that Dagny Taggart is the biggest Mary Sue character I've encountered since Bella Swann. She's super talented and clever and able and beautiful and she runs the bestest railway in the whole wide world and all the other industrialists fancy her. She's such a teenage wish-fulfilment character that I'm just surprised that she doesn't have violet hair and a psychic wolf as her best friend.

As the book goes on, it becomes apparent that society is collapsing because the great minds and innovators are going on strike - withdrawing their ingenuity and dedication in silent protest at high taxation and the expansion of the state, and without their productive ability society is collapsing. In short, it's a thousand page long peaen to individualism and meritocracy and in that it's unobjectionable and even accurate. However, as a philosophical screed it falls into several traps.
The first is one that Plato fell into many years ago. Much of Plato's writings consist of a series of dialogues between Socrates and other people in which Socrates' philosophy is outlined by means of the famous "Socratic Dialogues". Unfortunately, Plato doesn't do himself any favours by having Socrates only argue with morons, meaning that there's no sense of any challenge to his ideas and resulting that I immediately disagree with them on general principle. A summary of Socratic dialogue might be:
One day, Socrates was out walking when he met Stupidus.
Socrates: Hail Stupidus
Stupidus: What-ho Socrates. I was just saying that I have proven that Black is White.
Socrates: Nonsense. It is obvious that Black is Black and White is White.
Stupidus: Darnit, you're right. I hasn't thought of that.
Greek Chorus: Ha ha, everyone laugh at Stupidus. What a belmer.

Rand falls into the same trap of making her villains so objectionably stupid and evil that there's no real feeling of challenge as the mighty industrialists out-think and out-argue them at every turn.
Secondly, Rand makes a number of statements that just plain aren't sustainable - for example, the assertion that the USA is the only nation is history to have been created through reason rather than conquest and through trade rather than looting. I rather suspect that this is a statement that the Sioux Nation might take exception to.

In all, it's less a novel and more a philosophical statement; the characters in it - Dagny Taggart, John Galt, Wesley Mouch, are no more real people than are Snowball and Napoleon the pigs in Animal Farm. However, there is one prediction that Rand got utterly, astoundingly right. As I read, I realised that Atlas Shrugged is an astonishingly prescient description of the collapse of the Zimbabwean economy. As the government seizes more property, the productive members of the economy (the farmers) remove their services (move to Mozambique and Tanzania). In panic, the government passes a series of laws resricting movement and banning people from putting up prices in order to fight inflation, until the end effect is a reversion to a subsistence economy, looting, banditry and the black market which the government blames on wreckers and traitors rather than their own hamfisted policies. The parallels are astonishing and the predictions of the effects of Zimbabwean economic and social policy are 100% accurate. I was genuinely surprised, as it's rare any predictive dystopian novel calls something so well.
So there you have it; Atlas Shrugged isn't a parable about our own economic crisis and the bank bailaouts, for all that some commentators say that it is. It's a parable about someone elses crisis and how predictable it really was. For that alone, it's worth reading.

In the light of all the above erudition and cynicism, I don't suppose any of my lady readers would care to take their top off?

Date: 2009-04-08 10:16 am (UTC)
ext_20269: (Mood - bedtime bear/sleepy)
From: [identity profile] annwfyn.livejournal.com
I may be the only person in the world who genuinely likes Tolstoy, and read War & Peace whilst enjoying it.

I also then read about magic scimitar wielding elves with unpronouncable names too, so it turns out reading Great Works of Literature doesn't actually protect against brain rot.

Date: 2009-04-08 10:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
War and Peace isn't a bad read, in truth. I can name any number of worse ones very easily.

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Date: 2009-04-08 10:19 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Ah, the old Socratic dialogue technique. I'd think a lot more highly of Iain M Banks, if his Culture novels didn't always feature a scene where the witty, quick-thinking, aphorism-turning, Oscar Wilde like, genius IQ level Mind of the GCU Mary Sue gets into, and easily wins, an argument with the right-wing feudal dictator grunt of a backward planet, otherwise known as "a man Iain M Banks came off worse with once in an argument in a pub."

H

Date: 2009-04-08 10:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I was thinking of referencing Banks in that section, actually, as he's an author who uses the 'only arguing with stupid people to make sure my mouthpiece character wins' technique all the time.

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Date: 2009-04-08 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janewilliams20.livejournal.com
I agree with you about Alexandre Dumas, and would point out that "Three Musketeers" at least is even better in the original than in translation.

I rather enjoyed Plato's Life of Socrates when I first read it, but I was too young then to spot the flaws.

Some day I will have to finish reading War and Peace. I have a plain-text copy on my PC as test data for computer programs that claim they have no size limit on input fields, but I've only ever read chapter 1 (which may give you some idea how good theose claims are).

Date: 2009-04-08 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Similarly I used to know someone who read Asterix in the original French as "the jokes are better". However, I've always struggled with languages so reading things in the original isn't a huge option for me.

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Date: 2009-04-08 11:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glummdead.livejournal.com
Dammit man, you've ruined the ending of both The Murder of Roger Ackroyd and Mein Kampf

Date: 2009-04-08 12:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I was pretty sure that everyone would have seen the film version of at least Mein Kampf

Date: 2009-04-08 11:54 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Dagny Taggart is the biggest Mary Sue character I've encountered since Bella Swann

Dude! A Twilight/Atlas shrugged crossover, it'll be a publishing sensation. You've hit the zeitgeist this time. It can't fail.

H

Date: 2009-04-08 12:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
To my dismay, I can see how I'd make that work really well.

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From: [identity profile] glummdead.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-04-08 12:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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Re: No, no. Like this

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in from metaquotes as well

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Re: in from metaquotes as well

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Re: in from metaquotes as well

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Re: in from metaquotes as well

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Date: 2009-04-08 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commlal.livejournal.com
No top removal here, I'm at work. Thanks for saving me from reading Atlas Shrugged, I can't abide MarySue characters.

Given my limited english lit knowledge (I'm a science girl as you well know) I was amazwd that I knew who Ayn Rand was.

The game Bioshock is set in a dystopian underwater city, with a number of the overarching themes taken from Rand's writings and her philosophy of Objectivism. Who says that computer games arnt educational.

Date: 2009-04-08 03:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I've played Bioshock - it's excellent.
Towards the end of the book the striking industrialists create their own secret community and engage in red in tooth and claw friendly capitalism; this is what Rapture was based upon. The flaws in Atlas Shrugged are very well highlighted by the inherent failings and collapse of Rapture's society.

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Date: 2009-04-08 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrmmarc.livejournal.com
(nods)
I think the current success of the book owes much MUCH to the current absolute desperation of the right in America.

Never has a group of people been so without any ideas about what the hell is going on in the history of that nation.

There is a real feeling of 'Obama BAD' but they cannot actually say WHY-
"Do you think he is bad?"
"Yes he does bad things!"
"Soooo... what would YOU do?"
"Er... not what he is doing..."
"Yes what exactly?"
"Er... different things... better... less socialist..."
"So you would not bail out any banks?"
"Er... no... we would... er... we would bail out LESS."
"Explain?"
"Yes we would... er... bail out... less money... and things... you goddamn commie!"

Of course the Mary Sue character is being beloved. Its a closed argument.
The right is currently LOVING closed arguments.

I really worry about the right in America right now.
When THIS book is seen as THE statement of free market commercialism, then guess what?
Houston- we be having a bit of a problem...

Date: 2009-04-09 08:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Well, if I were running the economy...
1) I wouldn't have spent outside the country's means in the first place.
2) I wouldn't have made it in people's short term economic interest to create a property bubble.
3) I would have let Northern Rock go under. It's basic Machiavelli - be ruthless before being kind. Save the other banks if you must, but let someone go to show them that you are prepared to.

I think I outlined this four years ago.

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The virtue of selfishness

Date: 2009-04-08 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"for example, the assertion that the USA is the only nation is history to have been created through reason"

Yes, I think Rand's Russian background sometimes left her blindly in awe of the great American dream. It also means that as a novel, Atlas Shrugged isn't the most flowing read (though hey, it's miles ahead of anything I could manage in English when its my own tongue, nevermind a second language).

That said, and I recognise your criticisms, I like Atlas Shrugged. It's aspirational. It's a rallying call to the converted, more than a philosophical argument.

John V Galt

Re: The virtue of selfishness

Date: 2009-04-09 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I think that it's a solid tome about the benefits of meritocracy and individualism, and for that reason I agree with a number of things Rand says. Unfortunately, like every political/economic philosopher who has ever decided that they know *the* answer, it's hectoring, self-righteous and unable to accept differing opinions. It's like arguing with [livejournal.com profile] grimtales or [livejournal.com profile] raggedhalo; people so convinced of the inherent rightness of their arguments that they're incapable of acknowledging they may be wrong.

Re: The virtue of selfishness

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Date: 2009-04-08 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
One day, Socrates was out walking when he met Stupidus.
Socrates: Hail Stupidus
Stupidus: What-ho Socrates. I was just saying that I have proven that Black is White.
Socrates: Nonsense. It is obvious that Black is Black and White is White.
Stupidus: Darnit, you're right. I hasn't thought of that.
Greek Chorus: Ha ha, everyone laugh at Stupidus. What a belmer.


Yes! Yes indeed. I've been saying this for ages, though with more words and less elegance. Glaukon is one of the best and brightest examples of how Socrates's main superpower is making all his enemies accept all his definitions without so much as a squeak of protest. It really goes to the heart of how the editors who mulled over Plato's stuff for hundreds of years ended up with a protracted exposition of a certain kind of Greek thinking much more than an actual debate manual. It'd be a bad manual: "Say things, wait for opponent to unconditionally agree, win."
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I gave up reading Plato when I just got so cross that nobody ever gave Socrates a run for his money. What is the value of victory with no challenge?

Date: 2009-04-08 10:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-maenad.livejournal.com
Now, I'm always a bit leery about thick books ever since that time I read Mein Kampf and found it was just like The murder of Roger Ackroyd - you read hundreds of pages and then find out at the end that the narrator was the murderer all along.

You're gunning for [livejournal.com profile] metaquotes again! (May I....?)

Date: 2009-04-09 08:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
By all means - always happy to be quoted.

Date: 2009-04-09 08:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raggedhalo.livejournal.com
it becomes apparent that society is collapsing because the great minds and innovators are going on strike - withdrawing their ingenuity and dedication in silent protest at high taxation and the expansion of the state, and without their productive ability society is collapsing. In short, it's a thousand page long peaen to individualism and meritocracy and in that it's unobjectionable and even accurate.

Two things:

1. It's objectionable inasmuch as it assumes that great minds and innovators are anti-collectivist. I think it's pretty clear that there are great minds and innovators on either side of the political divide. So it's hyperbole, but then it's a book and apparently contains a Mary Sue so it's probably forgiveable in context.

2. Interesting point about Zimbabwe. Should I suddenly find myself with 1,000 pages of spare reading time once I've gotten through my backlog then I shall investigate this Rand of whom you speak. Everything I've read about her previously makes her and her work sound utterly odious, so it's interesting to see a different perspective.

Date: 2009-04-09 08:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I suspect you'll hate it for fairly predictable reasons. I think she starts from a fairly reasonable perspective on the overlarge state and unjustified definitions of 'need', and then goes utterly bonkers somewhere around the page 450 mark.
The Zimbabwe allegory, though, is astonishing. As I read it, I felt my eyes opening wide as I realised just how accurately she predicted Robert Mugabe. The scene in which a law is passed forbidding people to leave their jobs or raise prices made my mouth fall open.

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At risk of sounding dull...

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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2009-04-09 07:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

Quotes to ponder

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Date: 2009-04-09 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] squeeful.livejournal.com
I would argue that Paris in the 20th Century by Jules Verne (1863) is closer to the first dystopian literature. And The Iron Heel by Jack London (1908), "The Machine Stops" by E.M. Forster (1909), The Sleeper Wakes by H.G. Wells (1910), The Flying Inn by G.K. Chesterton (1914), and The Heads of Cerberus by Francis Stevens (1919) all came before We.

...what, I like the genre. Talk to me about post-apocalyptic too!

Date: 2009-04-10 03:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ibsulon.livejournal.com
That looks like a reading list to me. Any you would skip?

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Date: 2009-04-10 12:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] duckgirlie.livejournal.com
Here via metaquotes. I'd well take my top off. But I'm a grad student, we're easy.

Date: 2009-04-14 09:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Plainly I should go back into education.

Date: 2009-04-10 05:43 am (UTC)
shadesofmauve: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadesofmauve
Here from metaquotes, and I just took my top off.

Granted, it was to put on pajamas, and you can't see, but I thought you should know anyway.

Date: 2009-04-14 09:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Like I say, these things never work out as hoped :)

Date: 2009-04-10 08:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greatestofthese.livejournal.com
Very clever. I only ever bother with a lacy bra when I'm in my room. No top. Short shorts. Heels. But actually it helps if you balance your cynicism with a bottle of decent red wine and chocolate in the vicinity. Bitterness is more delicious with the balance of sweet in both speech and tongue. (Really, it works.)

I quite agree with you about the Socratic Dialogues, but I find that the point is better made when argued against an idiot. The acceptance of the moronic debate partner of Socrates' brilliance could, though, be an indication that the new method of thinking was merely a shot of illumination in a darkened or closed mind, and illustrates genius - or thinking beyond a box - in that as much as in the actual debate.

I also think Canada might object to the United States being a country created out of reason and not, say, a pervasive need to manifest its destiny outside its borders. (Not that Canada is any better - this nation was created out of a drunken one night stand in Montreal.)

Date: 2009-04-14 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I think you're right - Socrates was the first person (that we know of) to think like he did and so even if one disagrees with his arguments or methods the acknowledgement of his genuis shouldn't be stinting.
I always get cross with people criticising Freud for the same reason.

Date: 2009-04-10 09:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] incapability87.livejournal.com
I still remember my Greek teacher standing before us with an apologetic face, saying, "Well, his opponents are usually dumb as sh*t, and they never find an answer anyway, so ..." before she proceeded to tell us dirty anecdotes about him.
Good times ...

Is is sad that they're almost the only thing I remember from a two semester course?

Date: 2009-04-14 09:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I was just saying to someone else that we should't dismiss Socrates entirely, because he's the first person to think like him so the execution of presentation is undeveloped.

That doesn't make it any less irritating, mind.

Date: 2009-04-10 12:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] extoria.livejournal.com
So I had this great idea once for a book in which Karl Marx and Ayn Rand meet (and then duel to the death, obviously). Make that happen, and my top comes off.

Date: 2009-04-10 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kattahj.livejournal.com
I don't have a pic ready with myself topless, but I'm taking Charisma Carpenter's top off. That's much better anyways. Your description of Socrates is SO TRUE. (And I now have yet another reason never to read Ayn Rand.)

Date: 2009-04-10 02:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hotclaws.livejournal.com
Here from metaquotes,I've found myself reading these books and agree with your comments.So,off comes the top and teh bewbies are out for the lads.

Date: 2009-04-11 01:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elsolylaluna.livejournal.com
Here from Metaquotes (obviously), and my top is staying on. Partly as a favor to you, because you don't want to see that, and partly because you insulted Les Mis.

The rest of this was pretty brilliant, though. I remember doing a presentation on Ayn Rand senior year of high school. The entire time, all I could think was "wow, I hate this woman's philosophies".

Date: 2009-04-14 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
I suppose someone out there had to like Les Mis, but I didn't expect ever to meet them :)

I quite enjoyed Atlas Shrugged right up until Galt's rant, at which point it becomes incoherent, internally contradictory and not a little bit bonkers.

Date: 2009-04-11 09:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lillerina.livejournal.com
My top comes off, because I totally agree about les mis. The whole book was made up of "and now let's forget plot and talk about this tangent!" Drove me insane.

Date: 2009-04-14 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davywavy.livejournal.com
Les Mis lost me with the eternal whining of Marius. My life is made brighter by the knowledge that I shall never, ever read anything so dull again.
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