[Politics] The Liberal Democrats

[davywavy]

There was a point, about a year ago, when the Liberal Democratic Party were the hippest, most jivingest party in the country. Bouyed by Nick Clegg's failure to make a complete tit of himself on national television, LibDem supporters were jubilant, opinion polls briefly put them in second place in the election, and "I agree with Nick" was a catchphrase for, oooh, the best part of a week.

Speaking personally, I've never really considered voting for the LibDems. I always thought they had some really good ideas, but they also had far too many policies which read like they'd been written by someone who'd been kicked in the head by a horse - and it looked like most of the electorate agreed with me, because come the election they'd slipped back to their usual third place. It's arguable that the defection of the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative partty to UKIP had a greater effect upon the outcome of the last election* than did any agreeing with Nick, but thanks to the vagaries of the electoral system we ended up with a Liberal Party in government for the first time in as long as anyone who is young enough to still have all their marbles can remember.

Since then, I've been generally impressed by how the coalition has worked out. I didn't vote for either of the parties involved, but overall I've come to the conclusion that of all the possible outcomes of the election they've turned out to be probably the least worst. George Osborne's economic shortcomings have been bolstered by David Laws and Danny Alexander telling him what to do, whilst the more 'kicked-in-the-head-by-a-horse' LibDem policies have been curtailed by David Cameron laughing until he cries every time they're mentioned. Moreover, the LibDems have got several policies through which most certainly wouldn't have happened under a solely Conservative majority - the raising of the tax threshold to 10k (which is a brilliant policy and will do more to get people into work and out of the poverty trap than Labour managed in 13 years and with all the tax credits you can eat. I'm hoping the economics of raising it to 14k will be in place before the next election), and the ending of the detention of migrant children, for example. Additionally, they've got a shot at their dream of electoral reform.

Despite their successes, the outright rejection of the LibDems by their voters has been impressive to watch. If I'd been a LibDem supporter before the last election, I'd be pretty much delighted at this stage of procedings but it appears I'm missing something about the Liberal Democrat Supporter mindset - and it's what I'm missing that I want to explore. Y'see, I'm generally an optimistic, glass-half-full sort of chap and I find that the world goes my way so rarely that I'm delighted when it does. The outrage from Libdems that their party hasn't been able to acheive their ideal world in eight months flat as part of a compromise government just leaves me baffled, and I'm starting to wonder what the average Liberal Democrat actually wants...
Nick Clegg once said something to the effect that the Libdems weren't a party of government, but their role was to act as the conscience of government and that comment makes me wonder if the LibDems (or their supporters) really ever wanted to get into power, with all the compromises and failures which being in power entails. As I didn't vote for either of the two current governmental parties, I'm aware of the smug self-satisfaction which comes from being able to believe anything I like whilst never having to engage with the consequences of seeing those beliefs enacted or challenged - and I'm kinda coming to the conclusion that the LibDems were the party for people who wanted to feel like that.

It's all really blown up over the pledges, signed by many Libdem candidates, to oppose university tuition fees. Pledges which, in the event, many of those who are now MPs have been unable to keep, to their obvious distress. Higher tuition fees have been coming ever since Polytechnics were allowed to start pretending to be universities in the early 1990s, Tony Blair decided that anyone can go to university no matter how thick they are and finally Gordon Brown getting the economy alone in the changing rooms and saying it had a real purty mouth. It really strikes me that blaming the Libdems for having to break that promise is like being angry that someone who promised to buy you a pint turned up at the pub having been mugged and their wallet stolen. Like Vince Cable wearily said - he's having to live in the real world now.

But this is a serious question to all my Libdem-supporting pals out there. What are the Liberal democrats? Or what did you think they were? Are you a political party, with politics being 'the art of the possible', with all the the grubby compromise that entails? Or were you just the biggest pressure group in the country all along who happened to get unlucky and find yourselves in over your heads when it came down to it? You've got more of your policies enacted in coalition than you otherwise ever would in a million years - why aren't you happy? What were you expecting to happen? What would you like to have happened?
What, in other words, did you actually want in the first place - because I'm darned if I can figure it out from your reactions.

^{*There are twenty seats where the number of UKIP votes exceded the number of votes which would have swung them to the Conservatives. If Cameron hadn't gone back on his EU-referendum promise, I reckon we'd've had an outright Conservative majority.}

Comments

[danfossydan.livejournal.com]

UKIP is weird. If he had kept his EU-referendum promise, he might have been painted as very anti-eu which may have cost him alot too. It would be a close ran thing.

I love: "George Osborne's economic shortcomings have been bolstered by David Laws and Danny Alexander telling him what to do, whilst the more 'kicked-in-the-head-by-a-horse' LibDem policies have been curtailed by David Cameron laughing until he cries every time they're mentioned. "

As to why would anyone vote liberal, I was thinking about this the other day, as someone painted the Conservatives as the upperclass party, Labour as the Working class party and the liberals as the middle class party. I thought how shockly stupid this was. Its extremely undesirable to divide polotics along the lines of class. its also simply not true, because the lines are so blurred. But then I though, I could see why they said it. Isn't there a comedy sketch about this with 3 men all lined up talking rubbish?

[(Anonymous)]

I have yet to see a poll which didn't show a thumping majority of the British electorate want a referendum on 'EU' membership - and UKIP's policy is to offer one, not to simply withdraw.

The day democracy became EU-scepticism was the day we should've left.

[danfossydan.livejournal.com]

I'm opposed to referenda.

I reluctantly conceed for some really important stuff the question: "Should this recomendation from Parliment be adopted?" should be asked. In principle though, representatives who have time to look at this things property are great. Means I don't need to worry about any of it.

And can worry about more important things. Like how much snow is there.

[belak-krin.livejournal.com]

The Liberal Democrats are a party of excellent ideas, but have always struck me as the 'idealist party'. They have very few policies that I disagree with in principle, but I think the real problem for them has been that they never expected to be in power. I agree with the abolition of Tuition fees, but I also believe that the number of people who can go to university should be dramatically cut...

The problem with being an idealist party is that a lot of your supporters are also idealists. Instead of thinking 'gosh, what would it have been like if Clegg wasn't involved?', a lot of supporters are throwing their toys out of the pram over broken pledges. Don't get me wrong, I think its bad that those MPs who signed the pledge didn't at least abstain from voting, but I think those who are declaring the LibDems to be 'Tories in disguise' or 'selling their soul for seats in parliament' are pretty juvenile in their arguments.

This has not been helped by Nick Clegg, who is left in a very painful position. I have no doubt that he could turn some of that pre-election charm on and deflect all manner of aggression away from the Lib-Dems and onto the Conservatives, but that would of course lead to the coalition falling to bits and the country getting royally shafted. Instead, he's being used as the man in the firing line, trying to explain that 'yes, we said we'd get you a pony for christmas, but we can't afford it'.

I can honestly see Clegg trying to make himself a scapegoat, taking as much of the flack as possible on his own back and then resigning in a hail of 'sorry' once electoral reform gets through so that the Lib Dems can pretend 'now we've got rid of him, things will be different'.

IMHO the LibDems are making the difficult transition from the heady world of Liberal idealism to the more difficult task of applied liberal values. when you aren't in charge you can change the world tomorrow, when you are in charge you have to start at day 1.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

You'd think that people would be looking at the LibDems and saying "Gosh, they can comport themselves with dignity in power", and being impressed. I certainly am. Heck, drop the kicked in the head by a horse policies, and I'll look seriously at casting my vote your way next time round.

But the toy-throwing? It's been staggering. I'm amazed by just how divorced from reality so many LibDem voters appear to have been over what is actually achievable within the quite narrow confines of government.

[belak-krin.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is that a lot of people used the Lib Dems as a way to excercise their beliefs without responsibility - being able to say 'I voted against that!' without worrying about having to actually take responsibility for the results of implementing it (the opposite of refusing to vote for the Lib Dems because despite believing in their policies, 'they won't get in').

This has been rather exacerbated by the wave of 'maybe we can!' that resulted from the pre-election debates. A lot of Lib-Dem supporters hopes were raised far too high, believing that Clegg would somehow implement the majority of Lib-Dem policies because he somehow had the Cons by the balls.

The problem with the student fees seems to be that Lib Dems have lost their moral high-ground and many supporters are now stamping them as 'corrupt like all the rest', perhaps having voted for them on the basis of them being 'nice' rather than their actual policies.

Given that Clegg was persuing the 'we are a serious political party' line during the election campaign, I think that has been continued very well. Perhaps if Clegg was less competant, Cameron wouldn't be able to keep putting him up to deal with the tricky press conferences.

I fully expect the next manifesto to be more realistic in its outlook, while retaining the spirit of the previous one. Hopefully that'll help them to swing more of the central vote, particularly if they get their electoral reforms.

[medusa-nw.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. I dread to think what would have happened with a purely Conservative government. Even the tuition thing, which I am very much not a fan of, is a work in progress and will probably not be as bad as a lot of people think once the sums have been done and the government realises it doesn't actually save them as much money as they thought.

So yeah, I wasn't expecting much, and I've been slightly disappointed in some cases, and pleasantly surprised in others.

[belak-krin.livejournal.com]

I think the tuition thing will die down pretty quickly once people realise its just a massive saddling of debt, instead of having to pay up front. Much like the student loans now, I don't know of any bank, company or individual who counts their student loan as 'real' debt. The repayment is so long term (and slightly crooked) that it doesn't really factor in. I pay slightly less than the interest on my loan every year and will continue to do so until I die... I suspect it will be similar under the new system. (still think its the wrong way to go mind you).

Scrapping EMA is actually a smart move imho, but I'd like to see it replaced with means-tested subsidies for transport. I think that could be achievable, but we will see.. its not all as doom and gloom as its being presented.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course, the other issue is the difference between the membership and (at least certain members of) the leadership. The likes of Clegg, Laws and the rest of the 'Orange bookers' are soggy wet on Europe, but they're reasonably right-wing economically - indeed, one might actually say they were actually liberals. By comparison, the membership seems to be a spin-off of the wooliest lefties of the Labour Party.

The mere idea of coalition with the evil Tories is just anathema. The Tories could have agreed to introduce fullblown PR and the LibDem membership would still have been waiting for the first opportunity to shout "Judas" at Clegg, because that is intrinsically what they feel. They've only been this quiet so far because they know they'd have looked stupid at turning down power. In the end though, your average LibDem thinks Simon Hughes is sound. That's all you really need to know.

[aiwendel.livejournal.com]

I have voted lib dem, and am not aghast at them now. It think the spirit of compromise is a good one, and they are helping keep the conservatives on track a bit etc, and have already managed some good things despite being the minority party in bad times. Eg delaying trident, 10k thing etc.

however I am rather baffled at the scale of the cuts. Did labour really fuck things up THAT much? Or is it 'the enconomy'? Or what. I don't understand politics well enough to know whether the previous party were a bunch of idiots or this coalition is majorly over reacting.

I'm glad it's not me having to sort out the mess. Happy to be a pleb rather than someone in power here.

In answer to your question

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

Yes, Labour really did mess it up that badly.

One of the few members of the old government who came out with any dignity at all was Alastair Darling, who as chancellor took to hiding money from Brown (as PM) because otherwise he'd've spent it and made the situation worse.

[hareb-sarap.livejournal.com]

Absolutely agree with the following (I say as a Labour Party member). I'd also like to see higher top rates to cut back on Employer NIC contributions - which is a tax on employing people

"the raising of the tax threshold to 10k (which is a brilliant policy and will do more to get people into work and out of the poverty trap than Labour managed in 13 years and with all the tax credits you can eat."

Sorry, but I don't believe you this time.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

If you like lower taxes of any sort whatsoever, why are you a Labour member? The two are imcompatible viewpoints.

[sesquipedality.livejournal.com]

What you're missing is that while many party political policies can fall before the stark light of realpolitick, there are certain core values that take us from "compromise in the name of practicality" to "not the party we voted for". Some of the things this coalition have done are very good. I'm even cautiously optimistic about Iain Duncan Smith's welfare reforms.

But equality of opportunity really matters to many who voted LD in the last election. The scrapping of tuition fees is a huge kick in the balls for that. A kick in the balls that that fierce proponent of equality of opportunity, Margaret Hilda Thatcher herself, would almost certainly never have delivered. This is because she got that this country generates wealth by being cleverer than most. The only resource we can be competitive in a global market with is our intelligence. And the Lib Dems have basically said that we're not interested in finding the cleverest people any more, we only want those who are clever and rich.

This is a shocking betrayal of core Liberal Democrat principles, and an economic disaster waiting to happen. A lot of Lib Dem voters are strong believers in meritocracy. You don't create a meritocracy by making it uneconomical to get educated.

Still, it's an interesting new world we live in. I've never been a floating voter before.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, the blessed St Margaret of Grantham didn't try to send 50% of the population to university whether they needed it or not.
The sensible solution would be a smaller, fully funded HE sector which would be able to take talent from wherever it were to be find, but who would have voted for the LibDems if their policy had been "Vote for us and fewer people will go to university"?

You're putting them in a no-win situation. Somewhat unfairly, I think.

[belak-krin.livejournal.com]

I think you are absolutely right that we excel by being cleverer than most. Unfortunately, lots of people with degrees does not equal lots of clever people.

When I was making my applications for university, I had the opportunity to gain entry to a course with 1 D-grade A-level. I was offered a place at a university which I declined to attend interview at... thats hardly meritocracy at work. Making it free to attend those courses wouldn't have solved that problem at all.

[sesquipedality.livejournal.com]

By the way, if you want to talk about principles getting in the way of realpolitick, UKIP is an excellent example of this. The reason Cameron wouldn't hold a referendum on Europe is because he might lose. Withdrawal from Europe would be total economic suicide, and no matter how much we may dislike the European government's wastage, and the Court of Justice of the European Union's shameless power grabs, severing our ties with Europe would kill dead many British businesses reliant on trade with Europe, not to mention cutting off our principle source of cheap labour.

Did you know that the accession regulations for the new EU states are actually more restrictive than the policy adopted by the UK. The UK made it easier for eastern European workers to come here than they had to. In truth, it's questionable if our service industry could survive without that pool of cheap labour.

Expecting the electorate to understand that it's too late to pull out of Europe would be political and economic suicide.

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

My reasons for wanting a referndum on Europe are political, not economic. As you know the legislative and the executive bodies of the EU are appointees, not elected. Speaking personally, I have a preference for democracy and being able to directly select the people who make the laws I live by. As I can't do so with the EU, I want out.

I'd rather be more free than more rich.

[sherbetsaucers.livejournal.com]

Nice post. I think the problem is no one made the connection between the cute, fluffy lib dems and what it actually takes to become the third party in what is, essentially, a two party political system. A lot of people seemed surprised that they haven't done absolutely everything they promised to! Who would have thought that the junior partners in a coalition government can't change the world?

On the other hand, tuition fees seems to mean a lot more to the casual lib dem voter and the electorate in general then something like PR. So yeah, who knows.

[inskauldrak.livejournal.com]

It's not just tuition fees though. It's the Educational Maintenance Allowance being scrapped meaning they may not even be able to stay on for A-Levels : (

[(Anonymous)]

Oh sob, what did everyone do before EMA was introduced?

The main point of EMA is that it allows youngsters to bum around college for an extra two years at the taxpayers' expense while not counting in the Govt's figures for the number of layabout youth NEETs (Not in employment, education or training).

[davywavy.livejournal.com]

It's weird, I'm pretty sure I'd remember if anyone had paid me to stick around for a levels, and yet I did it anyway. It's almost like I understood the value of education. Then again, thanks to us now languishing In 23rd place on the OECD education tables, maybe that thirty quid a week is the only value education has any more.

[elbly.livejournal.com]

Wow! You really opened the flood gates with this one!

I voted LibDem in the last election because it was the best of three bad options. That and I have to be honest, I genuinely thought that if they got in to power their idealistic policies would be converted by the civil servants into something a bit more realistic.

I used to work in local government which works on the same basic principles (although obviously with a lot less power) and I was involved in switching "moon on a stick" demands into "have a tasty lolipop" realities.